It is most interesting that you received this letter from your father in law as it appears not to be an isolated incident. Dad began relating a few of his war memories to us about a year ago. Interesting part is that he told them to wife Jane, not sister Jane or me. He also related some things about Roy M. (grandfather) and some of his WWI information. I believe it was a combination of things that brought this out. Jane had started genealogy research on the Frost family and found several misconceptions and just plain bad information in tracing our linage back to a Scottish clan. At that time Dad said that while Roy M. was recovering from wounds in WWI, he visited the graves of these relatives in England and Scotland. With a small seed planted by Jane who is a writer of great talent (I don't know what he regards me as but) he told here more in one afternoon than I have heard all my life.
I think Tom Brokaw's book certainly started this, but lately the unfolding events of out current crisis has added to sharing. I was with Dad when the Towers were hit, and we talked more in our 2 or 3 hours together following than in our lives. I hope others will realize the importance of talking this out with family. They are almost gone and with them will be lost some vital historical information. You know the old adage if you don't study history you are doomed to repeat. I have been thinking that part of the motive for England's rapid entry into the war was memories of giving much of Europe to Hitler because Chamberlain was such weak self-serving politician and not a statesman.
From what Dad has told me over the years, Max must have some stories to tell, though undoubtedly more painful than most.
You add Saving Private Ryan, and Band of Brothers and the scene has been set to share what they are willing to. Dad found it not quite so painful as he thought it would be. As a final comment, (for now of course) we received a call from a retired friend in Bella Vista about a year ago. He wanted to have Jane put together his story as a survivor of Pearl Harbor for is nieces and nephews as he could have not children. We went to their home and spent the better part of a day taping the story and picking pictures and news clippings. Two days later he died.
As I fought the war on two fronts Turkey/Greece and in Denver, my stories tend to lean to the Joe Bob Briggs side rather than the Tom Hanks or Tom Brokaw approach.
Dad says he is more frightened of this current situation as our nation and all of the world's people are vulnerable and face the possibility of "attack" from unknown sources by unknown means.
Remember August of 2001 when we thought computer virus' were frightening threats.
There is a picture of my grandfather, great-grandfather, father, and me that appeared on the front page of the then News Herald circa 1950. Three veterans of three wars and a little kid who they hoped would not have to serve. I am so very proud of that picture. As Dad always says the American Legion was started to honor veterans of honorable service, but was supposed to run out of eligible members once peace had been secured. So much for that theory.
More later,
ACE
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Ah yes, the old war powers clause. Was never invoked during the Korean 'police action' to my knowledge, and as I understand it, US troops knocked off plenty of enemy troops. Technically, I guess it isn't war until declared by Congress. I understand why the President chose the word - probably not with much analysis, but it does create a sense of urgency which facilitates action, sans the paralysis of analysis that the politicians invariably engage in. The negative fall out, I think, is that it will eventually feed the domestic opposition to 'the war'. The term conjures the traditional image of war, but it is an unconventional war. If people aren't prepared for the fact that our national security safety-net is not fool-proof, there will be major disappointments with the way 'the war' is being conducted. People have to understand that the safety net will involve sacrifices. One national talk show pundit Michael G.??? is already bitchin about Pan Am's decision to ban ALL carry-on luggage. Selfish, self-centered, egomanical bastard. I hear from Rumsfeld the war cannot be conducted without American casualties. I think we should elect to use our sophisticated weaponry first. How do we determine when THIS war is over? The reality is that it probably never will be because now that one idiot has tried it and was obviously successful, there are plenty of others like him. Take him out, and you still can't say the US borders are now safe; relax the airline security, etc cannot ever be in my opinion. Enough.
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Give Bombing a Chance
I am a little dismayed when I hear our legislative representatives propound that bombing alone has never succeeded. One doesnt have to look back too far to remember Japan. How about our most recent Gulf War Games? What is it with this rhetoric that bombing was never successful?
Of course it was not in Vietnam. Hanoi was barely touched in the overall scheme of geography. Baghdad was barely touched in our selective bombing of empty bunkers. Bottom line, weve simply never had the will to lower an entire city; how would we know if it were ever effective? Our humane theory has been to avoid civilian targets. Now, thats what you call ineffective! War is war and if we want to play by the rules in a street fight, I say stay home. Lets not sacrifice thousands of our unprepared voluntary forces in hand to hand combat.
There is absolutely no reason to commit ground troops until we see a true bombing effort employed. We work
towards first downs so to speak. First, Kabul, Afghanistan is buried. Second down, Tehran, Iran. Then we take a time out and see who is going to produce bin Laden. No takersBaghdad is literally destroyed. Another time out.bin Laden????? Have they produced his corpse? Lets not forget Karachi, Pakistan or Damascus, Syria. All of these States are threats for terrorism and have had strategic roles in this war against the world.
Please don't tell me bombing won't work. Do we really have the will to wage war? Or is this going to be another ten year quasi war effort to boost our floundering economy? Can we spell Vietnam?
"In our seach for bin Laden, I'd rather be sifting through the rubble of the harboring mideastern cities than risking thousands of American lives via door to door, cave to cave combat"
Dick Miller
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I wouldn't know where to start to tell someone what I thought we should do, because I don't know. Will say, I think the economic consequences are gonna be severe when you think about the # of businesses, industries, etc effected, combined with the effect on consumer confidence, not just in getting on board again, but on discretionary
spending.
The effect one guy [or one guy's ideas] had on our country is just over-whelming to me. I agree with a number of the HC inner-circle pundits that Americans have short memories and if the response is not swift and meaningful, we lose a lot of support. The representative of the country's defense counsel indicated at today's meeting of the Denver Chapter of the Algonquin Society that he's not sure
if bin laden was involved. Of course, my opinion is not based on evidence which would be 'admissible', but Jesus Christ, we won't get the metal loaded to go fight if we are constrained by our traditional notions of justice.
I foresee the next incident [and I believe there will be more] will no way involve the airlines; I think this guy is smart, shrewd and crafty; I think we're lookin at fuckin the water supply to a major metro area, a poison gas,
chemicals or biological attack of some sort. I think the more pain and havoc he creates, the better the chance the resolve of the country will develop to kill his ass, his missionaries and his organization, without restraint on the methods. It may not be until then, that we are successful.
Oh well, I'll bet the grass needs mowing this week end, so how has my life changed? Have a good weekend.
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I think I could be easily classified now as having a basic Charlie Rose understanding of things, since most of what I understand about the aftermath comes from watching Charlie. From that, and a few other sources, this is what
I am tending to believe: 1) It will not do any good to go off half-cocked and inundate Afghanistan with bombs and missiles; that country already resembles a parking lot, and the chances of hitting the intended target are slim and
none; 2) Bin Laden is a hero and a cult figure in certain parts of the Muslim world, not because of what he has accomplished, but because of what the U.S.A. has made of him and attempted to do to him; 3) Is there a Winston
Churchill anywhere in our midst? Perhaps there is an unpopular, aristocratic, blue-blooded graduate of Choate and Harvard out there somewhere who wakes up every morning with a warm bath and a shot of Johnny Walker looking for a
constituency (my own idea); 4) What sacrifices are going to be required of the American people, besides infinite patience? Is the economy going to go down the tubes? Will energy prices go through the roof? Will there be rationing of certain commodities we have taken for granted? This is where I believe George II really needs to level with the American people. 5) Is this really a struggle between good and evil? I go back and forth in my mind on this.
On one hand this really seems to be a simple-minded approach, which ignores the rule that one should know his enemy. Moreover, it is my opinion that the home front during Viet Nam was lost after the American people were
fed this line of bullshit for too many years before they discovered the truth. On the other hand, "good vs. evil" might be an inspirational thought to a 19 year-old member of the airborne about to parachute into the boondocks
of Afghanistan; 6) What about the economy and the stock market? What about all the talk over the weekend about individuals who intended to buy securities this week? I figure the drop is either further evidence that
institutional investors control it, or evidence that there is a big difference between being a patriot and a broke patriot; 7) George Will said today that "this strange war will be won, but part of its strangeness is that
we will not know when that has happened." My question to Mr. Will, whom I consider to be the most thoughtful and eloquent of our journalists, is: And, if we should happen to lose this strange war, will we know when that has
happened? Or, will we be too dead or too regimented at that point to know or care?
Too many questions and no answers. And, I do not believe
anyone has the answers. It will take not only monumental resolve and patience on the part of the American population and its government, but a high degree of improvisation as well. So far, in my lifetime, I have only seen evidence
of the last mentioned quality, and none of that from the armed forces. I've seen it mainly on the Comedy Channel.
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I read the whole Seattle Times article. I think this is just advance notice of what may happen if the worst comes to pass in the world airline business, so that people can start thinking. But it doesn't mean that anything is cast in concrete at this point. 30,000 won't be pinkslipped tomorrow.
I really do think that a couple of more weeks, maybe a month, are needed to let people get over this trauma. Right now there are a lot of people scared of flying. They will figure out that they need not be. Much safer than the Freeway. cosnider: the four planes that went down on the 11th were only about 1/10th of 1% of the airplanes that would normally have been in the air that day. Also, these were the first hi-jackings for us in about ten years.
Problem is the Shrub has not been very wise about the economics of all this. He and his people have been preaching fear and gloom and doom for the last week. He has got to turn that sentiment around soon and start telling the truth that America is undaunted by this and that we are basically in fantastic shape, even though we have the big and long term problem of terrorism to worry about. But for God's sake, Georgie, put on the bright face and tell everyone how good it really is here in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
If you keep telling people how bad it is as George has been doing for the last few months since the market went south, and in the last 7 days, they are ultimately going to believe you, and you have a self-fulfilling profesy. The market was really in a long overdue correction (and all the correcting just may have been done yesterday) and the Federal Reserve has responded appropriately. All is really quite well with the world. George needs to bring out the big economic guns.
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Boy, I have a lot of thoughts on the subject, but I guess the ball in is W's court. I think we have to do everything possible to choke off the oxygen from the world wide bin Laden outfit and then kill them, and it is going to take a very long time.
How it will affect business I can't even hazard a guess. But if I were to guess I would think that a couple of more weeks are needed to let the country settle down. Business must just plain stink at this point. I think that things will settle down shortly, at least I hope so. Who was it said that "the business of the United States is business!"?
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If we were not in recession before, we're in one now. No help possible from other nations since their economies were already down the tubes. I have not sold any stocks. I did cut back about 6 months ago so I'm putting buy orders in 10% and 20% below the mkt on companies I always wanted to own but thought prices too high.
It's imperative to link ourselves with the non-militant Muslim nations. We can't go "bombs away" and kill innocent people--that would turn the entire Muslim world against us and foster new terorists.
I'm a moderate/liberal and voted reluctantly for Gore. However I'm glad to see the old men in charge. If we're going to fight a war, I'll take experienced military men any day instead of dicks like you and me.
I believe that Seattle is more diversified now so that the Boeing lay off won't be like the old days. But there are plenty of dot-com millionaires who may feel the pinch.
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On Boeing, it's more likely related to the economics of the domestic airline industry. With all of them suffering from a week+ of lost revenue, they're cutting back as an industry. Then on the defense side, guerrilla warefare would utilize some carpet bombing followed by fighter and attack helicopters on isolated targets - nothing like Desert Storm. Therefore the need for more larger bombers is not hot.
We will utilize small attack teams hitting small targets in the six or eight countries identified as harboring known terrorists - a CIA/SEALS type effort. This will utilize teams from our allies, too, and should not receive over-promotion when successful. I'd feel good if they gave the task to G. Gordon Liddy and asked for results with no details as to how it all got done.
Again, this will not be swift and final like Desert Storm. We need time to train this type of strike force, and learn to work with our international allies. In essence, we will fight fire with fire, using the tactics of the enemy. On the political side, we must work closely with the Islamic allies to assure them this is not a war of religion vs. religion, but instead a war of good vs. evil. The vibrations I've heard suggest that Islamic countries do not want to be condemned for the actions of the extreme radical groups, but lack the conviction or know-how to deal with the radicals. Step One seems to be economic - find a way to cut of the assets and supply of money to the extremists, forcig them into the open.
Watch for loosened controls on the FBI and CIA to carry out the mission.
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As of interest, we spent last week in Winfield, Kansas on our annual pilgrimage to the National Flatpicking Contest and Walnut Valley Festival. This was my 30th year and quite memorable for both good and bad reasons.
I will briefly share my experiences and hope others might do the same. Since this festival is definitely a tradition in our extended family, with the exception of my true family, there was no other place nor people I would
have wanted to share the experience with than my fellow acoustical addicts.
Our oldest son was in the air between Charlotte and Dallas when it started. I was in Hutch for a visit when we came out of Skaets. I had the radio on KFDI but was listening to Peter Jennings instead of Johnny Western. Something had to be wrong. Got back in time to see the first aftershock. Headed off to Wichita to get info on airborne son. Through some old friends found him safely on the ground in Dallas.
Off to Winfield to find 5,000 + stunned old hippies and boomers not sure exactly what to do. Stay? Go home? Hold the course and show some commitment, reverence, and
yes that mystical thing called patriotism? We chose door number 3. Within 1 hour Winfield and Ark City had sold out of flags, people were making ribbons, making arrangements to donate blood or money' concern was about victims (not fully realizing they themselves to a lesser extent were to
become victims as well). As Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the Story" was not as pleasant. Six plus block long lines of self absorbed twits racing to fill their tanks with plentiful gasoline. Being charged and gladly paying inflated gas prices which actually went down the next day. Yes the bread and milk were gone from the shelves as well.
Having spent a lifetime one year in Turkey, I can honestly say I do not have a clear picture of the people of that part of the world, and I should at least have a reasonable understanding. I made an attempt to learn the language, but my Turkish counterparts and employees wanted to speak English and really did not want to take the time to hear me butcher the Ottoman Empire's tongue. I really did not pay attention. I saw Beirut before it became a landscape of a post nuclear winter, and visited Israel, Iran (under
the Shah which was no picnic for many Iranians) and Egypt before the political, economic, ethnic, and spiritual building blocks imploded on the land and its people.
We all are victims now. To some extent each of our lives will be impacted and the freedoms we have will be a little less accessible.
I noticed in some shared correspondence that what we are now faced with is not a hit and run military raid. The blood stained hand of world terrorism has reached out and slapped us right across our collective faces. If anything remotely positive is to grow out of this it is the unmasking of America's Fundamentalist Extremists. Those whose rhetoric has been tacitly supportive and frequently used as justification for countless acts of terrorism in this country for the past several years. Pat Robertson
provided the forum and Jerry Falwell provided the words (eventually using his shoelaces for dental floss) and I hope somebody listened. You just can't take back the elements of that discussion.
Having faith in our leadership, both civilian and military, I believe we are in it for the duration, which may be much longer than we have become accustomed to.
One hope is that Jerry, Pat and the boys, would get a life, preferably somewhere else.
Oops, got a little emotional there. Anyway I look forward to reading the observations, comments, and critiques of our distinguished group in the coming days. I think we are officially in the "standing around waiting for
a grenade to explode" phase. (A phrase most recently coined by RJ)
A final observation: Maybe Larry Flynt was too soft on Jerry?
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It's petty difficult to be "patient" at this point. Especially if you believe (and I do) that world support will dwindle as time moves on. Plus I'm feeling at this point that "vengeance" is not necessarily a bad thing. Finally, (and this most likely isn't even remotely finally) I'm afraid that the Islamic faith has demonstrated over and over again in the past that: If you don't do worse to me than I did to you then you're the patsy and I'll abuse you again only even more dastardly the next time. If you haven't read the book "From Beruit to Jerusalem" (I think the author is Friedman) get it ASAP and enjoy the best tutorial on the Mideast ever written.
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